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	<title>Comments on: Religion Taken Too Far</title>
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		<title>By: Haveil Havalim #275: The &#8220;I&#8217;m so busy that putting together this blog carnival is actually what substitutes for taking a break&#8221; Edition : Writes Like She Talks</title>
		<link>http://www.israelsituation.com/2010/06/religion-taken-too-far/comment-page-1/#comment-3655</link>
		<dc:creator>Haveil Havalim #275: The &#8220;I&#8217;m so busy that putting together this blog carnival is actually what substitutes for taking a break&#8221; Edition : Writes Like She Talks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] In Religion Taken Too Far, posted at The Israel Situation, Eric writes about his impressions of the multi-faceted situation in Immanuel. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In Religion Taken Too Far, posted at The Israel Situation, Eric writes about his impressions of the multi-faceted situation in Immanuel. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony Reich</title>
		<link>http://www.israelsituation.com/2010/06/religion-taken-too-far/comment-page-1/#comment-3484</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Reich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.israelsituation.com/?p=2356#comment-3484</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comment BY and also the piece that you wrote on Esser Agaroth (for readers who have not read this, please do).

The truth is that in modern-day Israel, religion is politics.  So it is tough to distinguish between the two.  To say that Torah Law takes precedence over secular law is an easy statement to make, and will receive the support of most religious people.  The problem is, which Torah Law do we follow?  Shamai or Hillel?  It seems like for almost every Rabbinical ruling (which followers are obliged to adhere to), you can find a contrary Rabbinical ruling which other followers adhere to.

I personally believe that Rabbis who issue instructions to their followers in the IDF to refuse orders (to evacuate citizens from Gaza, West Bank settlements or anything else) are behaving extremely irresponsibly.  It may be true that Jewish Law does not support the concept of handing Jewish land to non-Jews, but there are many other provisions in the Torah which allow other Rabbis to rule that the soldiers should follow orders.  The issue of &quot;milchemet achim&quot; (civil war) is one, the other is protecting the precious lives of Jews which should have paramount consideration.  There may, therefore, be justification in handing over Jewish land while still adhering to the provisions of the Torah.  So, while supposedly issuing instructions to follow Torah Law, it seems to me that the Rabbis run the risk of contradicting it at the same time.

The unfortunate part is that many Rabbis are influenced by political and other considerations when making rulings on matters which could be argued in different ways.  If we truly believed that the Rabbis are ruling solely on the basis of Torah Law, it may be easier to accept their pronouncements.  Unfortunately some of them seem to be influenced by matters that are not halachically based, hence diluting the rulings of all Rabbis.

In my view, Rabbis should consider the possible consequences of their rulings on Israeli and Jewish society at large, particularly when there are strong cases both ways.  The Immanuel story is a classic case in point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comment BY and also the piece that you wrote on Esser Agaroth (for readers who have not read this, please do).</p>
<p>The truth is that in modern-day Israel, religion is politics.  So it is tough to distinguish between the two.  To say that Torah Law takes precedence over secular law is an easy statement to make, and will receive the support of most religious people.  The problem is, which Torah Law do we follow?  Shamai or Hillel?  It seems like for almost every Rabbinical ruling (which followers are obliged to adhere to), you can find a contrary Rabbinical ruling which other followers adhere to.</p>
<p>I personally believe that Rabbis who issue instructions to their followers in the IDF to refuse orders (to evacuate citizens from Gaza, West Bank settlements or anything else) are behaving extremely irresponsibly.  It may be true that Jewish Law does not support the concept of handing Jewish land to non-Jews, but there are many other provisions in the Torah which allow other Rabbis to rule that the soldiers should follow orders.  The issue of &#8220;milchemet achim&#8221; (civil war) is one, the other is protecting the precious lives of Jews which should have paramount consideration.  There may, therefore, be justification in handing over Jewish land while still adhering to the provisions of the Torah.  So, while supposedly issuing instructions to follow Torah Law, it seems to me that the Rabbis run the risk of contradicting it at the same time.</p>
<p>The unfortunate part is that many Rabbis are influenced by political and other considerations when making rulings on matters which could be argued in different ways.  If we truly believed that the Rabbis are ruling solely on the basis of Torah Law, it may be easier to accept their pronouncements.  Unfortunately some of them seem to be influenced by matters that are not halachically based, hence diluting the rulings of all Rabbis.</p>
<p>In my view, Rabbis should consider the possible consequences of their rulings on Israeli and Jewish society at large, particularly when there are strong cases both ways.  The Immanuel story is a classic case in point.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben-Yehudah</title>
		<link>http://www.israelsituation.com/2010/06/religion-taken-too-far/comment-page-1/#comment-3419</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben-Yehudah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jun 2010 08:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.israelsituation.com/?p=2356#comment-3419</guid>
		<description>B&quot;H

I have mixed feelings about this story.  I posted my opinion here:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://esseragaroth.blogspot.com/2010/06/real-issue-behind-emmanuel-school.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Real Issue Behind The Emmanuel School Protests&lt;/a&gt;

Religion taken too far?  I think you&#039;re being to kind, as I do not see religion being the real factor in the school controversy.  I see it as political, if not worse....

The real controversies is something to be paying attention to now, and in the future: To what degree can the secular courts intervene in Torah matters (albeit this wasn&#039;t one of them)? Do Torah communities forfeit their rights in this area when they take money from the government, etc.?  Is Democracy even compatible with Torah? 

Do not let the kippah on Edmond Levy&#039;s head fool you.  Did you see some of the comments he has made?

Levy&#039;s ruling may have been correct, by his reasoning was wrong.  The Slonimer Hassidim may have been [mostly] wrong, but the reasoning of the Slonimer Rebbe was absolutely correct:

Torah Law takes precedence over Israeli laws which run contrary to Torah Law.

Ben-Yehudah
Jerusalem

The economic imbalance is a whole &#039;nother story, one which needs to be addressed, or the country will implode (has wehallilah).  &lt;a href=&quot;http://esseragaroth.blogspot.com/2010/03/doctor-lawyer-broker-loser.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;[Ashkenazy] Jews need to dig their own ditches and pick up their own trash and take care of their own elderly.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>B&#8221;H</p>
<p>I have mixed feelings about this story.  I posted my opinion here:<br />
<a href="http://esseragaroth.blogspot.com/2010/06/real-issue-behind-emmanuel-school.html" rel="nofollow">The Real Issue Behind The Emmanuel School Protests</a></p>
<p>Religion taken too far?  I think you&#8217;re being to kind, as I do not see religion being the real factor in the school controversy.  I see it as political, if not worse&#8230;.</p>
<p>The real controversies is something to be paying attention to now, and in the future: To what degree can the secular courts intervene in Torah matters (albeit this wasn&#8217;t one of them)? Do Torah communities forfeit their rights in this area when they take money from the government, etc.?  Is Democracy even compatible with Torah? </p>
<p>Do not let the kippah on Edmond Levy&#8217;s head fool you.  Did you see some of the comments he has made?</p>
<p>Levy&#8217;s ruling may have been correct, by his reasoning was wrong.  The Slonimer Hassidim may have been [mostly] wrong, but the reasoning of the Slonimer Rebbe was absolutely correct:</p>
<p>Torah Law takes precedence over Israeli laws which run contrary to Torah Law.</p>
<p>Ben-Yehudah<br />
Jerusalem</p>
<p>The economic imbalance is a whole &#8216;nother story, one which needs to be addressed, or the country will implode (has wehallilah).  <a href="http://esseragaroth.blogspot.com/2010/03/doctor-lawyer-broker-loser.html" rel="nofollow">[Ashkenazy] Jews need to dig their own ditches and pick up their own trash and take care of their own elderly.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anthony Reich</title>
		<link>http://www.israelsituation.com/2010/06/religion-taken-too-far/comment-page-1/#comment-3304</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Reich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 05:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.israelsituation.com/?p=2356#comment-3304</guid>
		<description>I appreciate the feedback.  It is certainly a difficult topic to approach without stepping on toes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate the feedback.  It is certainly a difficult topic to approach without stepping on toes.</p>
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		<title>By: Devorah</title>
		<link>http://www.israelsituation.com/2010/06/religion-taken-too-far/comment-page-1/#comment-3281</link>
		<dc:creator>Devorah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 06:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.israelsituation.com/?p=2356#comment-3281</guid>
		<description>Well said, and non-inflammatory.  Bravo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, and non-inflammatory.  Bravo.</p>
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